Here is the National Review Online interview with Harvard AIDS expert, Dr. Edward C. Green (with my emphases and comments:
From Saint Peter’s Square to Harvard Square
Media coverage of papal comments on AIDS in Africa is March madness.By Kathryn Jean Lopez
‘We have found no consistent associations between condom use and lower HIV-infection rates, which, 25 years into the pandemic, we should be seeing if this intervention was working.”
So notes Edward C. Green, director of the AIDS Prevention Research Project at the Harvard Center for Population and Development Studies, in response to papal press comments en route to Africa this week.
Benedict XVI said, in response to a French reporter’s question asking him to defend the Church’s position on fighting the spread of AIDS, characterized by the reporter as “frequently considered unrealistic and ineffective”:
I would say that this problem of AIDS cannot be overcome with advertising slogans. If the soul is lacking, if Africans do not help one another, the scourge cannot be resolved by distributing condoms; quite the contrary, we risk worsening the problem. The solution can only come through a twofold commitment: firstly, the humanization of sexuality, in other words a spiritual and human renewal bringing a new way of behaving towards one another; and secondly, true friendship, above all with those who are suffering, a readiness — even through personal sacrifice — to be present with those who suffer. And these are the factors that help and bring visible progress. [NOTE: I don’t believe this is the accurate, official version of what the pope said. That can be found in this article.]
“The pope is correct,” Green told National Review Online Wednesday, “or put it a better way, the best evidence [evidence!] we have supports the pope’s comments. He stresses that “condoms have been proven to not be effective at the ‘level of population.’”
“There is,” Green adds, “a consistent association shown by our best studies, [studies!] including the U.S.-funded ‘Demographic Health Surveys,’ between greater availability and use of condoms and higher (not lower) HIV-infection rates. This may be due in part to a phenomenon known as risk compensation, meaning that when one uses a risk-reduction ‘technology’ such as condoms, one often loses the benefit (reduction in risk) by ‘compensating’ or taking greater chances than one would take without the risk-reduction technology.”Green added: “I also noticed that the pope said ‘monogamy’ was the best single answer to African AIDS, rather than ‘abstinence.’ [A very important distinction. Lots of people are attacking the pope’s position because of the old claim that abstinence is impossible, unreasonable, barbaric! Well, it’s really none of those things, of course, but that’s beside the point.] The best and latest empirical evidence [more evidence!] indeed shows that reduction in multiple and concurrent sexual partners is the most important single behavior change associated with reduction in HIV-infection rates (the other major factor is male circumcision).”
And while, as Travis Kavulla writes from Kenya today, the international media will ignore all sorts of fascinating new stories about church and civilizational growth in favor of a sexier, albeit way-too-familiar storyline, Green has some encouraging news: The pope is not alone. “More and more AIDS experts are coming to accept the above. [So, all the people who are singling out the pope and Catholic moral teaching for their criticisms are either uninformed or dishonest.] The two countries with the worst HIV epidemics, Swaziland and Botswana, have both launched campaigns to discourage multiple and concurrent partners, and to encourage fidelity.” [Again: monogamy, not abstinence.]
The pope added during that Q&A, “I would say that our double effort is to renew the human person internally, to give spiritual and human strength to a way of behaving that is just towards our own body and the other person’s body; and this capacity of suffering with those who suffer, to remain present in trying situations.”
We need to, in other words, treat people as people. [Which necessarily includes not treating people as expendable sexual objects.] Reason with them and show them there is a better way to live, respectful of themselves and others. It’s a common-sense message that isn’t madness [Boy is that a counter-cultural statement!] whether you’re in Africa or dealing with hormonal American teenagers. It’s a hard message to hear over the same-old silly debates, parodies, and dismissals. [Which is mostly what one finds in the secular media and society, because God forbid anybody should engage the issue with the objectivity, gravitas, and intellectual rigor it deserves.] But it’s one that is based on real life—and acknowledged not just in Saint Peter’s Square but in Harvard Square.
Wow–all that talk about evidence and studies! Could it be that our brilliant Holy Father has done his homework? Or could it simply be that science and Catholic teaching are on the same page, part of the same truth? I’d say both are the case.
6 comments
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22 March 2009 at 10:04 PM
frettys
The Pope is only trying to force his belief system on africa. I wrote about it myself in my blog:
http://www.thisisawebsite.info/2009/03/22/pope-says-no-condoms-for-africa/
check it out if you want too :)
23 March 2009 at 12:28 PM
Practicing Catholic
frettys: I have read your post and left a number of comments on it… which is more than you’ve done for my post. You don’t have to agree with me, but at least respond to what I wrote, preferably with compelling evidence and/or reasoning.
24 March 2009 at 1:13 AM
frettys
It actually wasn’t that I was bashing the pope or anything. My main point is that I do not believe he is a reliable source. and the Harvard professor isn’t necessarily a perfect one either.
My point. The Catholic church doesn’t like Birth control, It’s pointless for the pope to even say he is against giving Africa condoms, if he supported birth control that would make for an interesting event in the Catholic community. Also he’s not a expert in this in anyway?
Also the guy from harvard I feel like he is making these African’s out to be lesser humans who can’t understand. Just because you give someone a condom doesn’t mean that they will go crazy with it, that’s actually nothing more than an assumption and there is no way to prove that is what will happen in Africa. He is just stipulating as far as I can make of it. A lot of parents give their kids condoms to be safe when they turn a certain age, it doesn’t mean they will go out and use them that day. A lot of this information floating around is just using his position at Harvard as a reason to believe him. I think if he did not have his position at Harvard he would be written off much more quickly.
There is substantial evidence that condoms decrease the risk of STD’s specifically AIDs. There are no side effects to using them unless you are allergic to latex then you might not be very happy with it lol but it really wouldn’t hurt anything to give it a try with them or at the very least there is NO way the harvard expert or the pope could ever actually prove that the condoms will just give the afraicans false hope and cause them to just go have more sex. In fact to say that is just terrible. It’s an insult to them.
24 March 2009 at 1:13 AM
frettys
eh sorry, I just noticed a bad typo…your see it lol
24 March 2009 at 12:46 PM
Practicing Catholic
frettys: Thanks for offering additional comments.
If you read the 3rd paragraph of the article above, you will see that the reason the pope made this statement is that the subject was brought up by a reporter, who was expressing some criticism of the Church’s stance on condoms and fighting AIDS. And the pope then defended the Church’s stance. Which is his job is, is it not?
This particular article does not accurately reflect what the pope said–this article does; if you scroll down to the last 4 or 5 paragraphs, it tells exactly what the pope said. As one expects of Benedict XVI, he gave a firm, well-reasoned response, and one that we now know is supported by scientific evidence–evidence that he was most likely aware of.
I still do not understand why you discredit Dr. Green from Harvard. He is an expert in this field. You seem to imply that he is making moral judgments against African people. He is not making moral judgments against anybody. He is stating that all the best evidence from scientific studies supports the conclusion that condoms do not decrease AIDS, they increase it. He is speaking as a scientist, not as just some Joe Schmoe giving his own personal opinion.
As I said before, condoms have been tried–and they haven’t worked. The pope and Dr. Green are simply pointing that out and saying that there are better, more effective ways–such as Uganda’s abstinence/fidelity program. The pope and Dr. Green would both definitely support that kind of program–because they work.
The insulting idea–not only in Africa but in our own culture–is that people don’t have enough self-control and moral responsibility to be abstinent and faithful. That is an insult, my friend. It’s an insult and a lie that even many Catholics have bought into, sad to say. I know, I’ve been there. Thank God my life has changed radically since then. I now know for a fact that abstinence and fidelity are possible–and like the pope, I will say as often as I can. Because if my fellow Catholics don’t “get it,” then clearly something is wrong. And the pope and Church teaching are not the problem.
God be with you.
25 March 2009 at 4:51 PM
Lexington
Thank you for the lively debate, Frettys. I do not think the point is how much sex Africans have; rather, it is HOW ANYONE ought to be using the gift of his or her sexuality. It is meant for The Sacrament of Marriage. Not practicing chastity puts anyone at risk for emotional, spiritual, and physical consequences. Many instances of the contraction of A.I.D.S. involve premarrital or extramarrital intercourse. Condoms are not the solution to this. Chastity is.
“My point. The Catholic church doesn’t like Birth control, It’s pointless for the pope to even say he is against giving Africa condoms, ”
I apologize, but I am very confused by this. What point were you conveying, and why is this pointless?
Actually, A.I.D.S. already IS considered a widespread epidemic in Africa. And condoms have been distributed throughout. The problem is not being solved. The human heart is what must change. With grace, it can happen.
God Bless you.