This question, among other things, is raised in the comments at this post.
It is a good question in that it has forced me to articulate ideas that I normally don’t feel a need to articulate because I tend to take them for granted.
As always, you are welcome and encouraged to join in the conversation. :)
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18 October 2010 at 8:05 PM
mythoughts76
I am not Catholic. In fact a negative statement I made about the Pope and the Catholic church caused my own brother-in-law to disown me. Besides the fact that I believe in reincarnation, and past lives. besides all this I DO believe in God and Jesus, and of course e all know true evil entities do exist on earth. I just don’t think Satan wants or needs our forgiveness. In the end it is his relationship with the creator that matters. To even thin that we need to forgive him is a little egotistical of us as humans. If he’s as bad as we’ve heard he doesn’t care about forgiveness, does he?
21 October 2010 at 9:40 AM
Practicing Catholic
mythoughts76,
If you believe in God, Jesus, Satan, and evil spirits, you are better off than many people in our society, including some who profess to be Christian (at least on Sundays). Keep on believing and pursuing truth, and remember that Christ is the Way, the Truth, and the Life.
It’s a shame your relative disowned you. That is not what Catholics are called to do. We are called to love and pray for those who hurt us. I will pray for him and for you.
I think it is rather arrogant of us to think that we have anything to offer angels (whether they are good angels or evil angels). By nature, they are greater, more powerful, and more perfect than us. They are either absolutely obedient to or absolutely opposed to God and His will. They don’t experience the kind of ignorance, uncertainty, or doubt that humans do.
And while such human limitations can also limit the degree of culpability that humans bear for their evil deeds, the same is not true of the evil angels. They chose evil absolutely, without doubt and without remorse. There is nothing we humans can do about that, and it is very imprudent and downright dangerous for us to feel any kind of sympathy or familiarity with them.
God bless you.
18 October 2010 at 10:34 PM
The Reverend Doctor Victoria A. Howard
Yes, I believe we should love Satan and forgive him. I write extensively about this in a novel I wrote called “Satan’s Final Confession” where Satan becomes an angel of light after being befriended by a living saint, Jake Atkins. He requires twenty years for his confession and he is given a place in Heaven.
But even if Satan remains evil, we should still love and forgive him, for we should carry no hatred in our hearts if we want to get into Heaven! Keep checking out my website. I will soon list the book and its contents there for free. I have a special satan blog there already, so take a look!
20 October 2010 at 12:27 PM
Practicing Catholic
I would not share in your prurient interest in Satan for anything in the world, and I advise you in all charity to drop it before it’s too late. Satan is out to destroy you. I don’t know how I can be any clearer about that.
I spent many years in Satan’s thrall and I still struggle with the horrific consequences most every day. And I am one of the lucky ones. By the power of God and the prayers of my loved ones, I escaped being possessed in this life and burning in hell for eternal life.
I offer those same prayers for you.
22 October 2010 at 8:03 AM
The Reverend Doctor Victoria A. Howard, Anchoress
You say “in all charity”. What is charity but love? What fights hatred more effectively than love? Hatred of anything will bar us from Heaven, because hatred is defiled. I absolutely defy Satan’s pomps and works, but I realize that he himself plays on our souls by making us hateful and fearful. No Christian should fear anyone but God. Satan is a mere fallen angel, a nothing before God. He will always lose if we don’t fall into the trap of being afraid. Fear not Satan and know that he can be defeated by two little words: Jesus and Mary. Don’t let his hatred against you destroy you. Be perfect as the Father in Heaven is perfect, loving all men and fearing no one but God. Rain on the just and the unjust, until Judgment Day when we will truly know who was charitable, who best espoused love. For Love is God and God is Love, not hatred.
22 October 2010 at 12:06 PM
Practicing Catholic
I agree with nearly everything you’ve said in this comment.
However, I still hold that hatred is only sinful when it is hatred of somebody or something good, and that it is not sinful to hate evil. In fact, I would argue that it is both natural and necessary for us to hate evil, just as it is natural and necessary for us to love and do good.
I think I’ve fully expounded on all of this in my other comments, so I will leave it at that.
God bless you.
12 October 2012 at 5:03 PM
Multilittlegenius
Satan is the one who used Adam and Eve and now we Are curse with sin even being Forgiven I cannot forgive a person who loves EVIL and tries to make our almight GOD inferior.He is the reason I believe that the armaggedon is near and so is the Antichrist.So I still love him , but thats only because I am doing it for GOD.
19 October 2010 at 7:47 AM
Lexington
My understanding is that he has reached a point of no return, and will never choose for good again. It would seem a paradox, except that this is dealing in terms of absolutes. We must always hate and renounce evil, and the spirits who personify it.
22 October 2010 at 12:16 PM
Practicing Catholic
That is an important point I’ve tried to make–that we are dealing with absolutes when we consider angels. Angels are either absolutely good or absolutely evil. Not because they lack free will, but because their minds comprehend everything so completely that once they choose something they do it will full knowledge and understanding and don’t change their minds or reconsider.
Thanks and God bless you.
19 October 2010 at 9:55 AM
Patricius
That is, surely, God’s business!
21 October 2010 at 9:49 AM
Practicing Catholic
Patricius,
I agree with that. God can deal with the evil angels however He pleases. We can’t, and shouldn’t even try.
God can never be enthralled and harmed by them. We can be, and often are. Being too familiar and sympathetic with them is a great way to get ourselves into that situation.
God bless you.
19 October 2010 at 10:52 PM
Stella
That’s something to think about. I think maybe the answer is the common thought that we should hate the sin but love the sinner.
21 October 2010 at 10:00 AM
Practicing Catholic
Stella,
That principle definitely applies to other humans. But Satan and the evil angels? I think that they–and their sins–are so far from human comprehension that we are best off not even trying to understand–much less love or forgive them–lest we become caught in their snares.
I would argue that hatred of the evil angels and their deeds is a salutary hatred–something that exists naturally within humans for our own welfare.
I know we think of hatred as something evil and sinful. I think that is the case only when it is turned against people and things that are good (God, other humans, other creatures, ourselves, etc.). But I don’t think it is sinful when turned against something evil. I think we naturally hate, fear, and avoid evil.
God bless you.
21 October 2010 at 1:49 PM
The Reverend Doctor Victoria A. Howard
We, as human beings, are greater than angels, including Satan. We can possess God within us and be one with him and therefore, we can be God, and we can rout out Satan with one word: Jesus. It has always worked for me when Satan was in a certain situation. Now, as long as I have life within me, by taking in the Eucharist, I am superior to Satan and need not fear him. Satan is not very important in this world; we can always be ransomed from Hell if we do God’s Will. Compared to God, he is less than a virus; but we can hold God on our tongue. Our personalities remain intact, but Catholics can pick up God, while Satan cannot do anything like it. However, we must look at Satan as a naughty, cursing little boy looking for attention. So laugh him off, as he goes for yet another spanking…
21 October 2010 at 3:32 PM
Practicing Catholic
By God’s grace and adoption, we are greater than angels–but not by nature. By nature, angels are stronger than us and more intelligent than us, not to mention that they are not beholden to the physical and biological laws of nature that material creatures are. The holy angels know and do God’s will perfectly, while the evil angels oppose God’s will perfectly–both unlike humans, who are never perfectly good nor perfectly evil, and can usually only discern God’s will imperfectly at any given time.
Yes, we can–and must–always avail ourselves of the graces of God. But human sanctification doesn’t happen all at once. We don’t become perfect in a day. It is an ongoing process and an ongoing spiritual battle. Why is that, if Satan doesn’t have power in this world?
Furthermore, God and the Church reserve very particular graces and faculties for controlling and ousting demons–those of the exorcist. Why would we need ordained, specially trained exorcists if evil angels had no power in this world?
Finally, why would we need our guardian angels, as well as St. Michael and the Heavenly Host, if the evil angels were not a threat to us? God created them and gave them their mission to battle the evil angels and to protect us–obviously there was a reason and a need for that.
I realize that many Catholics (including clergy) have basically stopped believing in all of the above. But the Church’s teaching hasn’t changed or relaxed on these issues. To neglect to to teach these beliefs–or worse, to teach against them–gives scandal to the faithful and plays fast and loose with immortal souls.
I don’t think it is prudent, or realistic, to treat Satan lightly. I would much rather err on the side of safety and of long-held, consistent Church teaching.
God bless you.
PS–You seem to speak as a Catholic, and yet your name suggests you are a female minister of some church or denomination. I’m a bit… confused. It’s not generally my policy to question the identities of my blog commentors, but I’d be pleased if you’d be willing to clarify which church/denomination you belong to and where the “Reverend” comes from.
22 October 2010 at 2:50 PM
thecuriouscook
This is totally an off the wall question. It doesn’t matter if we do or don’t. God created the angels so he must have given them human emotions like hate? How does anyone one of you know for certain that if they choose LOVE they stick with it? Satan had a choice. I thought angels had no choice it was LOVE from the beginning. Is evil and hate the same thing? Why would God create evil? So we can learn life lessons? Perhaps God is referring to “NOT HATING FELLOW HUMAN BEINGS.” Hate is an evil in itself.. correct? God created hate too. Why did God get so angry at us human beings and want to destroy us? (The Flood) Did God feel hate? Frustration? He seems to have human emotions too and maybe he had to learn to control them as time went by.
27 October 2010 at 1:47 PM
latebreakingcatholic
God cannot feel hate himself, as he is perfect in all ways, however he can recognize it. He did give us freewill as fallen descendents of Adam and Eve, and we can create, feel and spread hate pretty effectively. Just because the world has a lot of hate in it doesn’t mean that God is the source of that energy. He has given us freewill and the intellect to decide for ourselves. That freedom is a thing of beauty and an instrument of sin all at the same time.
With his mission to the world with his son, he showed us the way he really wanted us to behave, as it was obvious we couldnt’ figure that out for ourselves. He left he perfect imprint to follow. A life of perfection, with deeds, examples and corrections of earlier misconceptions of what it was to be a “righteous person”.
It’s our job to follow that example and lead others by doing so.
His corrective actions, The Flood, Sodom, Plagues etc. are examples of his need to direct us or others that are heading the wrong way. If there are no consequences, then why would anyone not just continue in self absorbed sin through their lives?
31 January 2011 at 7:54 PM
jacy
here is my question… in order to recieve forgiveness i must first forgive all those who have traspassed against me…so recently i am verbally expressing and experiencing my hurt and forgiveness for those that have sinned against me, including forgiveness for myself. so, i work my way through my list and i come to a road block in should i forgive satan for his role in other people’s sins as well as my own? again, without first forgiving others you cannot be forgiven …so anyone got an answer? ide love to hear it
2 February 2011 at 7:37 PM
Practicing Catholic
Jacy,
Yes, we must forgive others to be forgiven. We learn that in the Lord’s Prayer: “And forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us.” Part of the solidarity and fellowship of human beings is realizing that we are all sinners, and all sinners are worthy of love and forgiveness.
Satan exists beyond that solidarity and fellowship. He is not a poor human sinner like the rest of us. He is more closely identified with sin itself, than with sinners.
I hope this helps. God bless you.
30 August 2012 at 3:18 AM
rachel
God made satan into a human and gave her a chance at forgiveness but because of her disobedient nature she blew it and she did not believe who she is. God will not forgive her because she directly disobeyed him. I hope that you will forgive her though because she has been here for 34 years not hurting anyone. She doesn’t. even remember the sins she is being punished for they happened in some other lifetime.
12 October 2012 at 5:12 PM
Anonymous
That made no sense at all.
22 July 2011 at 10:50 PM
Anonymous
Don’t love Satan. He is incapable of love and will even sacrifice his own worshipers to damn other souls to Hell. If you were to say to him “I will take you’re place in Hell if you will only repent and go back to God”, he will refuse the offer because he is that vain – he has his “pride and vainity to consider…”. He will fake being loving and kind to deceive people into loving and worshipping him for he still desires to be as God. He will also offer you money, power, etc in exchange for worshiping him, but in the end – he will only cheat you and not give you these things. He has become Satan of his own free will and would tell you that predestination doesn’t apply to his own fate. He considers himself a “perfect being” but deceives himself because only God is truly perfect. Don’t shed tears for him, he would destroy you and all of creation if he could, just for the purpose of hurting God – that’s how evil he has become….he can’t appreciate the indescribable beauty of God’s creation anymore as he once did when he was Lucifer, star of the morning….
21 January 2012 at 1:19 AM
Spike
I’m not a person to hold hate or bad feelings in my heart, but I cannot forgive a person who only shows that they are evil. By this, a person who uses God & Jesus to fool others, scam, deceive, and prey upon others by use of their power & position. To me, they can only be evil. Is it wrong for me to feel this way? In the Bible, the opposite of good is not “bad” but “evil.”
22 February 2012 at 11:22 AM
Matthew
In November of 2011 I became a believer and in this coming season of Lent I am about to be officially confirmed as a Catholic through the RCIA program. Reading this conversation just blew my mind. ‘Practicing Catholic’, and the rest of you folks seem like truly gifted and smart people.
8 June 2012 at 6:05 AM
Dennis
I logged on here because I struggle with the fact that God would create anything with the Divine foreknowledge that that creation would be separated from him for eternity. I also struggle with my humanity in this thinking: I a mere human who would have mercey and forgive satan for all he has done, how much more mercey does God have. To quote my fav priest “our mercey is but a rain drop in an ocean of Gods Mercey.” This is no ego trip.
I understand that the angelic are not like us. However, how could a perfect, good, God, being love and truth it self; create something knowing in advance that that creation would be banished from him forever. Or is there a greater plan in place? This is natural reasoning. The catechism teaches a bit about this.
Of course i submit to magisterial authority and teaching, but I do struggle with this.
20 August 2012 at 6:23 AM
Helen
Yes, I believe that everyone deserves our forgiveness, including Satan. The evil is in man. They are blinded from the truth. Separate from God. Connected only to evil with such a desperation to create suffering in the world. This is why we must try to understand why such evil is growing worse. Pride is their downfall, but it can be overcome, just like pride is in the hearts of those people who believe that it is good to hate evil. Unconditional love pervades all evil. It is thousands of times more powerful than Satan, but we must share in this emotion together. Understand why evil happens and then we can change ourselves by truly forgiving the nature of such acts. This is not weak, for it takes incredible strength from God to forgive such evil. I struggle every day, but some days I am so full of love and forgiveness.
12 October 2012 at 5:16 PM
Anonymous
God works through us so obviously we are some what still connected.
22 May 2013 at 7:43 PM
Ryan